Guy Williams delivers a cautionary tale for armchair journalists

Madeleine Chapman reflects on the week that was.

Guy Williams has made a whole show off the joke that he is a “volunteer” journalist. So getting publicly owned by David Seymour while trying to act as a journalist is a good and timely reminder not to underestimate the nuance and skill required in other professions.

On Wednesday, following his Waitangi speech being cut off numerous times by passive protestors, Act leader David Seymour held a media stand up to answer journalists’ questions. These stand ups are par for the course and Seymour relishes them, so much so that of all the politicians in parliament, he is one of the hardest to “crack” while being filmed. Seymour is many things but he’s not unversed in tense media interactions.

Williams, however, is new to the whole journalism thing. Or at least in the traditional “stand with other reporters and ask questions of a public figure” sense of journalism. Instead, Williams’s New Zealand Today is at its best when interviewing buzzy New Zealanders (ideally not while they’re intoxicated or on drugs) and finding the humanity and humour in darker corners of New Zealand. That type of journalism relies on one-to-one extended interviews that allow for rapport to build and occasional soundbites to be captured. It’s also a lot safer. Having done both, I can confidently say that getting a good answer out of a politician in the middle of a press conference is much, much harder.

Williams is politically minded and outspoken about his various beliefs, so I can imagine him at home or at work, watching a media stand up with David Seymour and muttering that the journalists are asking the wrong questions or are being too pleasant or are letting Seymour get away with nothing answers. I can imagine it because I think that all the time, even as a fellow journalist. When you’re not in the middle of it, everything looks simpler and easier to do.

But unlike your average punter watching the news, Williams is still in the media and apparently decided he could actually do something about it. Instead, he learned the hard way (the hard way being public humiliation at the hands of someone you probably despise, livestreamed) that even comedians who sometimes do journalism are not the same as full-time, working journalists.

Williams’ first error was in putting words in Seymour’s mouth by suggesting that Seymour said Māori were racist. Again, Seymour has said many things but he hasn’t said that. Williams’ second error was getting angry. And if he was simply pretending to be angry, then his second error was in trying to force a conflict for the sake of the cameras. What he got was two genuinely quick comebacks from Seymour (Williams: I’m not a real journalist but… Seymour: Even worse, you’re not even a real comedian) and zero answered questions.

If a random member of the public had seen Seymour talking to journalists, walked past and yelled “you’re spinning shit” before carrying on, I would have been impressed and probably laughed. They had a goal (tell Seymour what you think) and they accomplished it with little disruption to the journalists actually trying to do their jobs. They also wouldn’t be allowed to join the stand-up and keep yelling at Seymour, nor would their behaviour be used as a reason to further throw abuse at the news media in general.

If Williams’ goal was to simply angrily tell Seymour what he thought, he could have done that elsewhere and not taken up media time, effectively derailing his press stand up. If Williams, as a comedian, had asked a pointless but funny question, it would have been mildly frustrating for the journalists there but at least unsurprising and short-lived.

But his goal seemed to be to verbally joust with a divisive political figure and finally get him to stumble in a way no measly journalist had managed to. On that front, he comprehensively failed, and delivered a handy reminder of the specific role of the news media, no matter how much people might complain that they themselves could do a better job.

There is a place for protest, a place for comedy and a place for the mundane long-game work of journalists. The key is to not confuse one for the other, either as a maker or as a viewer. Under the Act Party Youtube video of the incident, with its 70,000+ views, majority of the comments are unsurprisingly disparaging of “MSM” and “NZ Media”. What they mean is news media but who they’re responding to is an entertainer. Williams, in fact, had already been chastised by a senior journalist earlier in the day for recording and speaking over the government pōwhiri.

As Seymour walked away from the media, he threw out a parting gift: “It’s been a lot of fun, and I’ve got a newfound appreciation for the real journalists.”

After watching the interaction play out on the livestream, I do too.

This week on Behind the Story

Crossover episode with The Fold: How the media covers Waitangi

Recorded on the sandy shores of the mighty North, guest hosts Liam Rātana and Lyric Waiwiri-Smith (along with regular producer Te Aihe Butler) take over The Fold for a behind-the-scenes look at how the media covers Waitangi. After three days of politician stand ups, haukāinga-led forum panels and more story leads than we had time to cover, what stood out? What did we learn? And how can The Spinoff get a golf cart for Waitangi 2026?

What have readers spent the most time reading this week?

Comments of the week

• Comment on The first official flag of Aotearoa and what it represents“If we ever change our flag, rather than inventing a new one, maybe reverting to this one would be the way to go.As the article describes, the creation of the flag was a collaboration between Māori and Pākehā, and incorporates symbols of both cultures. Also, even if a transliteration, incorporating Nū Tīrene in its name should satisfy nervous Pākehā that ‘New Zealand’ might be removed from our dictionaries and maps. Even if we add Aotearoa, New Zealand is likely to stick around. I’d be happy for the flag to represent all of us.”
• Comment on Help Me Hera: My child has terrible taste in music“As someone with a boomer Dad who had limited tolerance for pop music, and whose music taste I (as a millenial) now share almost completely, I definitely went through a rollercoaster of music tastes as a child. My favourite bands when I was 6 were both the Psychedelic Furs AND Savage Garden. Turning 11, I felt pressured to listen to the Edge and ZM by friends and transitioned to enjoying James Blunt. But soon with some new friends at high school we discovered our own way to indie and classic rock which allowed me to connect with my Dad anew. It’s only now that I have finally let go of my own millenial snobbishness and actually get to ENJOY pop music and LET OTHER PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS. Olivia Rodrigo is sick. Billie Eilish, incredible talent. Also, I stand by the first 3 albums of coldplay.”

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